Something to really think about…

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Yesterday, Kelly and I took several teens, including three of our boys to Camp Mashiach.  Long day driving about 11 hours round trip.

In the latter stages of our return home, I was pondering the following thought:

‘If Yeshua was righteous by keeping the Torah, what makes us think we can be righteous while breaking the Torah?’

I know, someone one will say, ‘but we have the righteousness of Christ.’

I say, ‘if you really think that argument holds water, then why don’t you commit murder, or steal, or lie?’

Truth: The one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Marinate.

About Pete Rambo

Details in 'About' page @ natsab.wordpress.com Basically, husband of one, father of four. Pastor x 11 years, former business and military background. Micro-farmer. Messianic believer in Yeshua haMashiach!
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24 Responses to Something to really think about…

  1. J. Greenwood says:

    We are only righteous by our belief in Yeshua. We are made righteous by belief and faith on him ONLY, no work, no study of the torah. There is nothing that we must do but believe on Him who died on the cross for us. Many people refuse Yeshua and the free Gift of Salvation because many false teachers are teaching ‘works’ instead of ‘belief.’ There are no works, including extra studies of KJV or Torah that one must do to accept His free Gift. Yeshua is very siimple and not complex as the law. We are not under law. “That no man will boast.” We are made righteous with our belief on Yeshua. We wear His robe of Righteousness. Not our own. That is what makes us Righteous. Too many people being taught that they must do this or that, read this or that before they will be made righteous.

    The judgments are coming with swift destruction soon. Please remember that by teaching this false doctrine that many people who read it may refuse the true words of God and reject Yeshua because you have made it into works instead of belief. That is a great many souls perishing into darkness over one piece of writing. You may want to ponder that a bit in the spiritual. This is a frightening place to stand if you want to be a teacher and you are teaching law instead of belief, grace and mercy.

    Once saved and made righteous by belief on the only one who can save, Yeshua, we will desire to read and know Yeshua. Don’t go back to the Law because Yeshua came to the world because nobody could walk in righteousness for the Law. Shalom

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    • Pete Rambo says:

      Mr. Greenwood,

      Where in my statement did I say we are made righteous by keeping the Torah? You read into that. Please read the verse provided in context and you will clearly see that if you abide in Him, you will walk as He walked.

      Keeping Torah doesn’t save, but the saved will keep Torah.

      Now, to address you comment and the anti-nomianisim contained therein:

      16
      For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
      And by His sword on all flesh,
      And those slain by the Lord will be many.
      17
      “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
      [g]Following one in the center,
      Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
      Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord.

      Isaiah 66 clearly states that eating the wrong stuff will get you some special attention at the judgment. You want to talk apocalypse and destruction? Do you really know what merits destruction? LawLESSness, or, TorahLESSness.

      In Matthew 7, Yeshua said,

      21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [n]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.

      Make no mistake, what you DO matters.

      I would humbly suggest you begin reading the articles on my Apologetics page.

      Blessings.

      Liked by 2 people

      • J. Greenwood says:

        You are about Law. You had me at ‘humbly’..lol now for a bacon sandwich.

        Like

      • Pete Rambo says:

        No sir. I am about obedience. Who’s Torah do you think it is?

        https://natsab.com/2013/12/04/was-jesus-on-mt-sinai-does-it-matter/

        Liked by 1 person

      • J. Greenwood says:

        ALL THOSE WHO CALL UPON THE LORD WILL BE SAVED! If you love Yeshua you will desire to follow…but it is not a Prerequisite to salvation. We are saved by belief on the King!

        Like

      • J. Greenwood says:

        “Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter KILLS, but the Spirit gives life.”

        “And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.”

        “You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.”

        “And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.”

        Please explain how I was called, and brought into the presence of Yeshua sporadically throughout the years? I did not know any of the NT or the Torah or any scripture and I was not even following Him when He arrived for me? Yeshua has been the only one to teach me, and it is Him who comes to me. This is why I believe on Him. I have been in His mighty presence. I know all about His judgments, and wrath which is coming. He speaks to me. This is why I believe. I have seen! I have heard His anger. I receive the ‘News Headlines’ from Yeshua himself before they happen and I repeat them. He has not been wrong yet. He has given me the spiritual gift of Prophecy. The Greatest one that a man may be given by Hashem. He did not judge me on Torah knowledge, I was in sin where He met me long ago. He is surely alive. I am His and He is mine.

        I have glorified Him with my belief and He has given me His spirit, and out of me rush His Living Waters. He alone has been the one to teach me Hebrew. He is the one who drew me and He is the one who has changed me. He is the one who has given me gifts. So how can this be so as I didn’t know the Torah? His Living Waters flow from me and I have seen His Living Waters of healing, miracles, others salvation, casting out demons. This IS the Spirit of God. You must walk in the Spirit and NOT law. For the letter KILLS, but the Spirit gives life.”

        I have imparted His wisdom on your pages. I am not taught by man, and I have no inclination to go to the letter or be taught falsely. I am taught by the Master alone, and He will be returning for His true followers.

        “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed.”

        “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.”

        Nobody will stand against Him and not fall and I am clearly aware of who is lawless, ungodly and practicing law without the Spirit of God inside. These are those whom he will say ‘depart.’

        He will never leave me because He is mine and I am His. He would not have drew me to Him, called for me out of nowhere when I was not even seeking Him, anointed and appointed me, gifted me in such high favor to tell me to depart. I honor Him in spirit and in Truth. The truth is He is alive! 🙂 He is mine and I am His. The letter Kills but the Spirit gives LIFE! Please seek and teach LIFE! Shalom

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      • Pete Rambo says:

        Mr. Greenwood,

        CnM, below, gave a terrific link that clearly explains the correct understanding of the verse you quote out of context: http://www.eliyah.com/transcripts/02212009.html

        As to the Spirit teaching you anything other than His Word, the everlasting unchanging Torah, you best test that spirit… Deuteronomy 13:1-5 states that even if you raise people from the dead, but lead others away from the Torah, you are to be avoided like the plague. This is why Yeshua, Paul, et al could ONLY teach the Torah. 2 Peter 3:14-17 tells us that Paul is hard to understand and the untaught easily misunderstand and twist him to the end that they walk in lawlessness.

        Again, you love eschatology, I suggest Malachi 4:4-6. Notice, before the Day of the Lord, we are to ‘remember the Torah of Moses, even the ordinances and statutes….’ Are you remembering? Even the ordinances and statutes?

        The Holy Spirit, like Yeshua, will ONLY lead you to keeping Torah. Period.

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      • J. Greenwood says:

        Did you just call Yeshua who appears to me a demon? Yes. You did. If you are ever blessed and in favor to be in the presence of Yeshua, you will KNOW who He is….He is NO demon! I know my Sheppard’s voice. He does not lead me to Lawlessness but He did lead me OUT OF SIN! 🙂 You are the one who he speaks of ‘that learns and studies for years and years but can never come to the understanding of who Yeshua is. You reject the truth of our Living God and you surely do not walk in the Spirit nor do you have the Spirit of God, or the Living Water. You have words in a Torah but you do not have the Spirit of God indwelling in you. All those years of studying Sir have made you a pharisees with blind eyes, and I believe it will be YOU that will be avoided like the ‘plague.’ You are a teacher of law. Period.

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      • Pete Rambo says:

        Sir, hear what the Word of God says:.
        To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
        Isaiah 8:20 KJV
        http://bible.com/1/isa.8.20.KJV

        Those are not my words.

        Here are some more that will stand until heaven and earth pass away:

        Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord ; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
        Psalms 1:1‭-‬2 KJV
        http://bible.com/1/psa.1.1-2.KJV

        The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
        Psalms 19:7‭-‬11 KJV
        http://bible.com/1/psa.19.7-11.KJV

        Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord . Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
        Psalms 119:1‭-‬2 KJV
        http://bible.com/1/psa.119.1-2.KJV

        Multiple times in Psalm 119 the psalmist confesses love for the Torah. I stand with him.

        Good day.

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      • J. Greenwood says:

        You stand empty of any Light of the Living God. You have been deceived.

        Like

      • Pete Rambo says:

        Scripture says: For the commandment is a lamp; and the Torah is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
        Proverbs 6:23 KJV
        http://bible.com/1/pro.6.23.KJV

        You are demonstrating that you do not accept the reproof of Scripture. According to God’s Word, one who does not accept reproof is a fool.

        Please consider carefully. I have only provided Scripture.

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      • J. Greenwood says:

        You are a pharisees. That is what God says and to reject any more to do with you. You do not know the true God of Israel and you are of Law. You are one of the men who would have killed Him off long ago. That is what He speaks…so I will say that the truth was given to you and you rejected it. Dust is off my feet. You were corrected and you refused the truth of what you are doing to yourself and others. You can twist scriptures all day long, but you would not know Yeshua if he slapped you across the face with His thorns. You are blind and you are teaching blindly. That is your prophetic word. You are a fool and a viper to continue to teach falsely. I pray that those who come in contact with you run from you before it is too late.

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      • Pete Rambo says:

        Your prophetic”word” is false. Here are God’s thoughts on it:

        If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
        Deuteronomy 13:1‭-‬5 KJV
        http://bible.com/1/deu.13.1-5.KJV

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      • J. Greenwood says:

        And it will not be I who is put to death, but you should because the Letter KILLS! You pharisees….you should not be teaching anything to anyone about Yeshua. You are a blind viper and quite foolish to continue on. I am going to have a ham sandwich and know that I am loved and in high favor of the King. Be blessed Mr. Pharisee.

        Like

    • CnM says:

      “His mercy is on those who fear Him.” Luke 1:50
      “Oh, how great is Your goodness, which You have laid up for those who fear You, which You have prepared for those who trust in You in the presence of the sons of men! You shall hide them in the secret place of Your presence from the plots of man; You shall keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues.” Psalm 31:19-20
      “If you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear.” 1 Peter 1:17
      “The LORD is near to all who call upon Him…in truth. He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He also will hear their cry and save them.” Psalm 145:18-19
      ” ‘Because your heart was tender, and you humbled yourself before the LORD…and you tore your clothes and wept before Me, I have heard you,’ says the LORD.” 2 Kings 22:19
      “On this one will I look: on him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word.” Isaiah 66:2
      “The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit.” Psalm 34:18

      Like

      • Pete Rambo says:

        And Proverbs 1:7-8. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. My son, hear the instruction of thy father and forsake not the Torah of thy mother.

        The fear of the Lord is always demonstrated by obedience to Torah.

        Shalom.

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      • J. Greenwood says:

        Yes He has great mercy on me because I fear Him.He is near to my tender, broken heart and contrite spirit. He sees every tear and how I have wept before Him. He always hears me. He will always be close to me because I tremble at His voice, and fear to do wrong against Him. A thousand men may come against me, but they will fall by my side. His hand is on my head, He hears my cries…he pulls me out of others pits and snares….He delights in me!

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  2. Phil says:

    So logical even a child can comprehend… Oh, Y’shua shared that concept with us also:-) Thanks for sharing the thought.

    Like

  3. kenrank says:

    Here is one of those “wow” things that happens from time to time.

    We have definitions we use for various words. It is our culture and time that define the words. For example, 100 years ago, if I had said, “I engaged in gay intercourse last night,” not one person would have thought anything more than, “Ken had a happy discussion with somebody.” In just 100 short years, look how those two words combined have gone from something positive to a complete abomination.

    We continue to allow time and culture to define out words. This is normal, in fact, there is nothing wrong with it at all. The only time it becomes a problem is when we are reading a document that is older and the words we are reading within it have had meanings that change over time. When that happens, we are unable to gain the full context of what we are reading. Here is one example:

    Psalm 59:10 The God of my mercy shall prevent me: God shall let me see my desire upon mine enemies. (KJV)

    Notice the word “prevent?” I imagine anyone at this time is now scratching their head attempting to comprehend what is being said. Why would the mercy of God PREVENT me? The answer is, the word “prevent” has changed in definition since 1611. Up through the middle of the 1800’s, prevent was defined as “To go before; to precede.” (source – Webster’s 1828) This is why most new translations translate that verse as “The God of my mercy shall go before me.” There, makes much more sense.

    The point I am getting at is that the word “righteousness” has had a meaning that has remain consistent throughout time yet our modern Christian culture, which tends to at least verbally avoid the Law at all costs, has a completely different definition. I am not even sure we can get the exact same definition if we sample between denominations, but I will share what I think is consistent.

    Noah Webster defined words as understood basically as used in the early English bibles. Since many of the words used back in that day are still used today, then perhaps how it WAS defined rather than how it is defined TODAY should be considered? Anyway…

    Webster’s 1828 – righteousness – 1. Purity of heart and rectitude of life; conformity of heart and life to the divine law. Righteousness, as used in Scripture and theology, in which it is chiefly used, is nearly equivalent to holiness, comprehending holy principles and affections of heart, and conformity of life to the divine law. It includes all we call justice, honesty and virtue, with holy affections; in short, it is true religion.

    Modern online Webster’s – 1. acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

    So we can become “free from guilt or sin” through Christ, like here:

    Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

    In the above verse it is clearly using the “free from guilt or sin” aspect of the definition. But we cannot force one aspect of the meaning of a word on every verse we encounter. For example:

    2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

    Are we now going to take the position that Timothy wasn’t “saved” as the word us used today? Obviously “free from guilt or sin” does not work here, but “acting in according with divine law” does. Just because Yeshua died and raised from the grave, the commandments have not been deleted. In fact, because sin is defined as “breaking the commandments” (1 John 3:4) then if Yeshua is sinless, he can’t “add or take from the law” because that is a commandment. Therefore, his work simply cannot have made it so we are free from walking obediently before God. We are free of the law of sin and death… but we are not from from not stealing, not killing, or serving other gods. And the idea that “the law is done away with” means I can walk lawlessly and kill others and cheat on my wife. And I know that is not God’s desire which means that modern conclusion found within Christianity is in error.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Ro Pinto says:

    El Kabong strikes again Pete! Thanks for sharing. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  5. CnM says:

    A pretty wordy, but decent explanation of the use of the following phrase in its correct context:
    “The the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life”
    http://www.eliyah.com/transcripts/02212009.html

    Like

  6. bwerhan says:

    We are not saved by the Law (Torah). We should keep the law because we are saved. “If you love Me, you will keep my commandments.” – John 14:15
    “This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” – Hebrews 10:16

    Liked by 1 person

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