‘Cheapening’ Jewish identity?? Oh, really??!

Great article and comments, especially by John Reiler:

Does It “Cheapen” Jewish Identity When a Gentile Practices the Torah of Israel?

And, the article OMJ is addressing is:

Unity in Messiah: A Commentary on One Law and Gentiles

 

Those who would seek to build/rebuild the dividing wall between Gentiles and Jews would be wise to consider that they fight against a work that God is doing in the world.  The diving wall was torn down by Messiah and the Apostles, but reconstruction began late in the first century with complete division between Jew and Gentile completed by about 400 A.D.  Few, for the next 1700 years passed through/across that wall.

In the last 35 years the Ruach haKodesh/Holy Spirit has again been moving to destroy that wall and Gentile believers all over the planet are coming to a place of Torah observance while maintaining faith in Yeshua.  At the same amazing time Jews by the DROVES are coming to faith in Messiah Yeshua!!  The wall is again torn down and we can begin to truly understand and live Ephesians 2-4!!  Unity!  One body!  Fellow heirs!!  Citizens of the commonwealth!!  Partakers of the covenants!!

Instead of rejoicing, there are voices in the Messianic Judaism community that want so badly to be accepted by Judaism that they would deny the work of Messiah and build a wall shutting brethren out….

Judaism is NOT the answer!  Christianity is NOT the answer!  The narrow Way is  exactly between the two…  a walk/path that, for whatever God’s purpose has been, was hidden for nearly 2000 years.  But now, He is opening eyes and bringing people of every stripe and background to a walk of peace and unity.

If Messianic Judaism really wants to lead, here is what they need to do:  They need to repent of the division they foster and then turn and open arms to ALL who believe in Messiah and desire to walk Torah.  Judaism will be jealous as all get-out when the MJ ranks swell with Torahkeepers who walk the Way of Messiah!  THAT is how the Tent of David will be restored.  Not by turning Gentiles away.

(I have several books I am reading and am about to start calling names for the dividers and specifically quoting their division and answering the falsehoods.  Makes me mad!!)

About Pete Rambo

Details in 'About' page @ natsab.wordpress.com Basically, husband of one, father of four. Pastor x 11 years, former business and military background. Micro-farmer. Messianic believer in Yeshua haMashiach!
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20 Responses to ‘Cheapening’ Jewish identity?? Oh, really??!

  1. loammi says:

    Second!

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  2. David says:

    I’m less than a year old in Torah and there are some groups with a lot of resources available. If you begin to trust those resources–some can lead you AWAY from Torah. I won’t name the publishing company just yet, but some of their current writings had me scratching my head for a bit until I found out what they were really up to. I feel fortunate for sticking with Torah but my fear is for all the new people coming into this and then to immediately be lead astray. I have a dear friend that this just happened to. He is now very ‘at odds’ with the whole ‘keep Torah’ concept and deeply believes Gentiles should NOT be doing it by any stretch. Very Sad! The problem is even worse, because now he doesn’t know what to do or believe…does he continue in Christianity (where he’s been miserable for years), or just abandon Yah all together?? His current state is almost worse than the former.

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    • Pete Rambo says:

      Indeed, we must be led of the Spirit and read Scripture for what it says, not some man’s interpretation. If their interpretation is at odds with the literal surface understanding of Scripture, better pray, read more and get several second opinions.

      Yes, God gifts men the ability to teach, but at the end of the day, we are each responsible for what we learn. I always encourage people early and often to spend lots of time in the Scripture and be very critical of everyone until they get their bearings. Much like getting off a ship. Takes a bit to get a firm footing again!

      The MJs that teach Gentiles to go back to the church are the ones that irritate me the most as Yeshua taught that a millstone was the destiny of those misleading a child. I pray they seek truth and tradition!!

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  3. I don’t think it is cheapening anything. But I sure am wary of cultural appropriation as a new run up to genociding Jews by obliterating their distinctness as a people. I get what James is going for but think he is carrying it too far. I tried and tried to go back to church but it is impossible: what has been seen can’t be unseen. I don’t feel always feel at home with a lot of the HRM. Many seem to have flip flopped from Christianity to HRM as they are dissatisfied with their lives and the church structure in a negative way, in rebellion and want to be something they really aren’t; be pretending to be Jewish, in essence. They put on the clothes and the part and don’t seem to understand what they are doing. I fellowship and worship with them anyway but wish there was some sort of middle ground. I admire Judaism but don’t see the need to be yoked to it, just Messiah. Pursuing Torah without giving up my distinctive Gentile-ness. But still one with Messiah, all of us. Am I making sense or just blathering?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Pete Rambo says:

      Completely making sense! I am a grafted in Gentile. Doesn’t make me the slightest bit Jewish. I do follow Messiah in keeping the commandments of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and take seriously that I am part of the family. Where I get riled is when MJs in particular want to diminish my fellow heir and fellow citizen status by telling me I don’t belong.

      What? Was Messiah’s price for me less because I don’t have to keep the commandments? Balderdash. There is one standard of righteousness, else they better produce a list of what the nations will be judged for apart from Torah!

      Liked by 2 people

      • Ok, good. I follow what you are saying. I was getting the feeling from certain bloggers, *not you* that we weren’t wanted by MJ’s, etc or were lesser citizens. I also get the feeling that my desire to back off of the Jewish customs to find a path forward to Torah as a Gentile was seriously frowned on by the HRM folks. I’ve been getting “drive by” snipes and comments made at me on FB by local HRM people that don’t appreciate my viewpoint, and that gets tiresome as well. I am exhausted by all the bickering.

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      • Pete Rambo says:

        I tire of the sniping and bickering as well. We must show love and restraint, while picking our battles. Always be rooted in Scripture and speak with grace/love as much as is possible.

        A huge part of the reason so many HRMers try to be/be like Judah is the fact that they errantly believe that Judah IS Israel. Therefore, to be grafted into Israel is, in their mind, to be grafted into Judah. Does Judah contain a remnant from all of Israel? Undoubtedly. The problem is that there are plenty of unfulfilled verses in prophecy that draw a contradistinction between the two demonstrating that the they are still not just very separate, but actually at odds with each other. The present state of Judaism cannot define who any other tribe is and they do not have this great divide that only Yahweh can heal! (Yes, small bickering factions like the Church’s denominations, but those don’t add up to prophetic necessity.)

        Now, do not misunderstand that I think a physical Israel exists. What I think, as Paul talked about being grafted in, is that the theological explanation for the mechanism of how the grafting works is through Israel. Ephraim was scattered and most forgot who they were. Now, as our Father opens eyes, He leads us back to the ancient paths where we are supposed to be walking. Doesn’t make me necessarily a physical heir, but I am a son of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with full rights and privileges as a ‘fellow citizen’ according to Paul.

        I’m still trying to completely wrap my mind around how to clearly and unoffensively explain it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Actually, you are making me feel a lot better about it. Thanks!

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  4. rmtdbt says:

    This seems to fit here…give it time, give everyone grace, but stand strong!
    Ephesians 6:11-13
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

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  5. David Bell says:

    Interesting. A few comments. “Gentiles” can be either the dispersed of the northern House of Israel, or non-Israelites. For the northern house, there is a time to come when the two houses will again be joined together, the Two Sticks (Ezekiel 37:16, 17). What many do not yet accept is that much of the Anglo-Saxon world is Israel of the dispersion.

    The second problem is that many modern Jews are NOT Israelites. In fact, there is a view that most “Jews” are, in fact, Edomites. An examination of the politics of Israel shows a strong divide along the lines told by Obadiah, between Edomite and Israelite.

    Personally, following the Torah, in its widest sense, is, in fact, highly scientific, and the single purpose behind it is so that we can have a long life in good health, and conserve the holiness bestowed upon us in the Covenant as expressed in Exodus 19, and repeated in 1 Peter 2:9.

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  6. Seems to me that we’re casting about for the full answer because it hasn’t yet been revealed. Everyone on this comment line has made good points. The bottom line is that we all are grafted in, whether Jew or non-Jew, because only by faith in Messiah Yeshua does anyone get a place in Israel. Physical descent counts for something, but if I understand Paul correctly (Romans 11, Galatians 3), it’s the spiritual seed of Abraham that populates the Kingdom. That seed is the saints who have the testimony of Yeshua and keep the commandments of God (Revelation 12:17). Somehow, some way, Abba will restore all 13 tribes, with the Lion of Judah as our King of Kings. I surmise the physical descendants will serve as some kind of “cadre” or “core” around which the rest of us get to coalesce into the tribes. It may be that the core will form around the remnant of all the tribes now extant in Judah, perhaps with additions from the physical descendants of the 10 Tribes scattered in the nations. That is the part that hasn’t been revealed yet as far as I know.
    Something else that may not be revealed or fully understood is the question of salvation. For nearly 2,000 years Christians have had the testimony of Messiah and Jews have had the commandments of God, but as Pete alluded in the original post very few crossed the dividing line and embraced both. Can we say all those millions of Christians and Jews through the ages are now lost to eternity? I don’t think so. Perhaps they miss out on some part of the full Kingdom inheritance, but there is salvation available for all who call on the Name of the Lord, however imperfectly. And that should give us ever more motivation to get along with each other, correcting and being corrected in love rather than sniping from the shadows.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Jack Jackson says:

    I believe the doctrine that creates 2 laws has very bad fruit. I began my walk in Torah in 2007 while in CA near Purim. We started going to a Messianic Congregation being convicted and joyous that we should “remember the Sabbath Day” and then “follow all His ways”. We found many even at that Messianic Congregation (even the Leader) did not have the same zeal in his heart. So we found Torah Club, by FFOZ while they were at that time teaching “one law for all”. It was several years before they “changed to divine appointment” and stopped printing and selling any of Tim Hegg’s books. The doctrine change resulted in great confusion within a family and others we know dearly. I liked much of the teachings, learned a lot, but when that large change of direction happened, we had to stop recommending any of it, lest they get caught in the confusion. Sadly, months ago, I actually burned all my former FFOZ teachings (paper and videos). That may seem “way out there” to some, but I was convicted to not have what I saw as “bad doctrine” in my home. I love the folks at that ministry, and have discussed my thoughts with them. I still feel lead to pray for them, but cannot recommend their teachings any longer. The difficulty they have is they “cut off a way back” by making statements about “their former ignorance” in their prior position “one law”. To go back now, they would have to admit that they were lead astray to where they are now. Back and forth, blowing with the wind would most certainly destroy their ministry.

    To have 2 ways to YHVH contradicts Yeshua as the “only way”. There is also only one man (namely Abraham) that didn’t withhold his only son, which caused YHVH to not withold His Only Begotten Son. This is the basis for the only covenant! So unless another also worked that out with YHVH for their son, there is only one covenant also!

    That covenant was given to a Hebrew man………Israel was in his loins.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Pete Rambo says:

      I completely agree with your assessment of FFOZ. Recently, I have purchased a couple books from there to wrestle with and refute. As you well know, we’ve written a number of posts on ‘bilateral ecclesiology,’ though have not called them out by name. It’s about time to do that…

      As you say, they are in a bind if they back up, but righteousness demands that. Matthew 5:19 ought to give them nightmares as they should know better!

      Here is an article I just published that has been brewing that stems from an email conversation with a friend who is a big supporter/proponent of FFOZ…

      https://natsab.com/2014/06/22/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D6%BE%D7%91%D7%A9%D7%82%D7%A8-all-flesh-means/

      Have you started recording and collating the huge list of bilateral refutations you continually offer over here?? LOL!! That is a pile of great material!!

      Like

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