The Star of David, or more appropriately, the Magen David is an unmistakable symbol that is immediately associated with Israel and the Jews, . Recently, the symbol has drawn fire from a prominent unnamed Messianic ministry that I usually appreciate for their many quality Scripture teachings, however, their recent foray into this symbol has irritated me because it tarnishes their credibility.
Two days ago, I received a quality email from dear friends in Israel, Ephraim and Rimona Frank, concerning the subject of the Magen David. I want to share that email followed by a few thoughts.
Shalom Fellow Israelite,
Regretfully over the past several years subtle anti-Semitism has been creeping into, and growing within the Hebrew Roots movement (being a self-defeating oxymoron). One of these expressions, which directly affects the Jewish people and the State of Israel, is the interpretation or meaning given to the Star of David (the “magen David” as it is called in Hebrew, “the Shield of David”). Among the numerous symbols used in the world there are, for example, the symbols of the written languages, that is the letters, but what renders each of them its meaning?
So let’s view the “Shield of David.” It is made up of two equilateral triangles that were joined together in days of long ago. Later it was used by other people or groups who took to that geometric shape, and may have given it their particular interpretation. But what is a symbol or any given object? In and of itself it has no intrinsic meaning. A five year old could look at the six pointed star and it would mean nothing to him, other than being an object to handle. He could play with it all day and it would still remain a play thing to him. But a parent may come by and tell the child that this star is what King David inscribed on the shields of his mighty men. A little while later another person may come by, declaring to the child that this object, with its particular shape, came from the devil and is very dangerous to look at, or touch. So now the child puts the two together and decides that king David and his mighty men were evil, as would be anyone else who associates himself with this hexagonal shape.
The Scriptures discuss how symbols and objects can become idols. Paul states, “We know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other Elohim but one” (1 Corinthians 8:4). In other words, it doesn’t matter what we call an object. Even if we attribute to it divine and supernatural characteristics, it is still just an object which cannot give life or anything else, and as such it will never animate itself, as it states: “They have mouths, but they do not speak; eyes they have, but they do not see; they have ears, but they do not hear; nor is there any breath in their mouths. Those who make them are like them; so is everyone who trusts in them” (or attributes any capabilities to them. Psalm 135:16-18 emphasis added).
Hence if man applies his knowledge to that article (Paul called this knowledge “food” given to an idol), and then believes that it can somehow give back to him some kind of edification or information – good or bad – then the object becomes that idol, for good or bad. YHVH further chides Israel for such stupidity:
“He cuts down cedars for himself, and takes the cypress and the oak; He secures it for himself among the trees of the forest. He plants a pine, and the rain nourishes it. 15 Then it shall be for a man to burn, for he will take some of it and warm himself; yes, he kindles it and bakes bread; indeed he makes a god and worships it; he makes it a carved image, and falls down to it. 16 He burns half of it in the fire; with this half he eats meat; he roasts a roast, and is satisfied. He even warms himself and says, ‘Ah! I am warm, I have seen the fire.’ 17 And the rest of it he makes into a god, his carved image. He falls down before it and worships it, prays to it and says, ‘Deliver me, for you are my god!’ 18 They do not know nor understand; for He [YHVH] has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, and their hearts, so that they cannot understand. 19 And no one considers in his heart, nor is there knowledge nor understanding to say, ’I have burned half of it in the fire, yes, I have also baked bread on its coals; I have roasted meat and eaten it; and shall I make the rest of it an abomination? Shall I fall down before a block of wood?’” (Isaiah 44:14-19, see also Jeremiah 10:1-50).Astrology is one of those disciplines that attach knowledge to inanimate objects; someone ascribes to the heavenly bodies certain characteristics, making it known to others who, in turn, believe this ‘information’ which originated in that someone’s imagination, or from a spiritual influence exercised upon that imagination.
As mentioned above, Paul calls this knowledge “food” that is offered to an object or symbol (idol), and then goes on to warn his readers not to partake of this so-called knowledge. Nowadays the computer is a case in point. All the source of the knowledge it contains had to originate from man, but it is so easy to forget that fact and ascribe the data it holds, to this technological device. Thankfully we do not worship the computer, although it is possible to become dependent on it and to trust it to the point of being unable to function without it (as if it will “never leave or forsake” us).
All this was in order to bring us back to our original subject. At present some ‘ministries’ are engaged in propagating what Elohim calls “foolishness” (see 1 Cor. 3:19). One, for example, put out a long occultic dissertation on the meaning of the symbol on the flag of Israel, with its associations being akin to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a foul and contrived publication that helped fuel the Holocaust).
If I may, I would like to give another definition to that symbol, with a more positive outlook. When David conquered Jerusalem he united the two Israels (the northern tribes with Judah, located in the southern region). But after the reign of Solomon YHVH, in accordance with His word and will, divided the kingdom in two. And so, if we separate the two triangles, as in the diagram on the left, and then rejoin them we come up with a very interesting design and thought.
And, lastly, what about this?
http://www.mayimhayim.org/Academic%20Stuff/Messianic%20Seal.htm
Shabbat Shalom,
Ephraim
I appreciate Ephraim and Rimona chiming in on this important topic, particularly as it breeds a perceived, if not actual, anti-Semitic reaction toward brother Judah. My personal stand against those who teach against the legitimacy of Israel today, the Jews, and even the Magen David began about a year ago when a friend gave me a star and a chain to wear. It has been off my neck lest than a few hours since I received it that day. I wear a Star of David as a show of solidarity with Israel and as a constant reminder of who I am.
I strongly recommend the short article linked above with the beautiful images of nearly 2000 year old artifacts bearing the fish-star of David-menorah symbol. Apparently the Apostolic fathers didn’t have a problem with this symbol. Neither do I.
My hope is that each of my readers will consider ways to bless Israel, the nation, and all of her people. In less than four weeks we board a plane for Israel to celebrate Sukkot IN Jerusalem and participate in the Second B’ney Yosef Congress. I cannot wait to see that beautiful flag and be surrounded by those wonderful people for 21 glorious days! And, I am going to be looking for a nice silver Magen David to replace this stainless one.
Selah!!
natsab 
Just asking (because I cannot find it), where’s the archeological proof that David had a shield with this symbol on it or used this symbol at all in his day?
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That argument is the same one some Christian scholars used to claim the Bible was wrong because there was no archeological evidence for the Hittites…. Then, 100 years later…. 😉
There is archeological evidence that the star was incorporated into early congregation practice. 🙂
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Can you please cite a source so I can look into it myself? 🙂
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For the artifacts? The link is in the article. I’ll email some other first hand info…
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“It is BELIEVED to have been created and used by the Jewish believers who called themselves Nazarenes in the first Messianic Church”
Sounds like an assumption but no direct link to David using this symbol (as implied by his name attached). Too much assumption to be fact. Still looking for facts. I know the Menorah is a fact (commanded by Yehovah), the “star”, not so much.
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Please supply a reasonable alternate theory. There is only one single timeframe in history that those artifacts fit and the window is so small even I can date them.
Please. You are smarter than that.
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Ironically, only one “star” is mentioned in scripture associated with Judah even in Yeshua’s day. Interesting is it’s the same one found from 2000 years ago circa Stephens stoning and a very common pagan image.
Deu 12:29 When YAHWEH your Elohim shall cut off the nations from before you, where you are going in to possess them, and you shall possess them, and shall live in their land,
Deu 12:30 take heed to yourself that you not be snared to follow them after they have been destroyed before you; and that you not inquire after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their Elohim? And I shall do so, even I.
Deu 12:31 You shall not do so to YAHWEH your Elohim; for everything hateful to YAHWEH, which He detests, they have done to their gods. For they have even burned their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.
Deu 12:32 All the things that I command you, take heed to do them and you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.
So where’s the commandment to have a “star” (image of something in heaven, see Exodus 20:4) added to anything?
By the way, in case anyone is concerned. I’m not trying to be contentious or anything like that🙂 . Simply trying to stay in the realm of facts as much as possible. After all, aren’t we all interested in truth? Been led down a false path before steeped in tradition. Just wary of going down another.
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For those looking on, Trav and I are friends. Jousting is allowed! 😉
Trav, if you’ll check the context of Exodus 20:4, you will see the problem is bowing down and worshipping. Otherwise, if you hold v 4 as a standalone, I can come help you clean every picture, image, carving etc out of your house… 😀
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Of course worship is the context of the commandment. So, are you telling me no worshiping, or attachment to, of Yehovah is going on in the presence of this image or an identification of people who claim to worship Elohim (connecting Him to them)? If not, why then did Stephen call out the Sanhedrin in his day concerning it (and other things such as the “need” for a temple made with hands)?
Act 7:42 But YAHWEH turned and gave them over to serve the host of the heaven, as it has been written in the book of the Prophets: “Did you bring slain beasts and sacrifices to Me forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel?
Act 7:43 And you took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, the figures which you made” “In order to worship them. And I will remove you beyond” Babylon. (Amos 5:25-27)
Act 7:44 The tabernacle of the testimony was among our fathers in the wilderness, as He who spoke to Moses commanded to make it according to the pattern which he had seen,
Act 7:45 which also was brought in, our fathers having received with Joshua, in the taking of possession of the nations, whom YAHWEH drove out from the face of our fathers, until the days of David,
Act 7:46 who found favor before YAHWEH and asked to find a tabernacle for the Elohim of Jacob;
Act 7:47 but Solomon built Him a house.
Act 7:48 But the Most High does not dwell in sanctuaries made by hand, as the prophet says,
Act 7:49 “Heaven is My throne, and the earth a footstool of My feet; what house will you build Me,” “Says YAHWEH,” “Or what the place of My rest?”
Act 7:50 “Did not My hands make all these things?” (Isa. 66:1, 2)
Act 7:51 Oh stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and in the ears! You always stand against the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, you do also.
Joust on, my friend 🙂 !!
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Hi Pete! I bought my first Star of David while on my first trip to Israel, never thinking I’d be back again. But God.
As you know, God answered my prayer at the wall to return (which I did last year). Now this year, in just 6 weeks, I am heading back again with a group of 9 fellow travelers. This was the second part of my prayer “Lord, please bring me back here, and please let me bring people with me.” Abba is so good, is He not?
So I tried to find the details of your trip online to see if there was a time we might meet up, but couldn’t find it. Can you send me a link? It would be awesome to meet, even if just for a holy hug.
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We’ll be in Jerusalem 13 to 25 October and in Ariel 25 to 31, then in Tel Aviv 31 to 2 Nov.
Drop me an email if that fits your schedule.
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Oh bummer. I thought we’d cross paths. We don’t leave south Florida until November 2nd. 😦
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We will cross paths, but only over the Atlantic. If we hug, it will holy…. 😂
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I’ve always wanted to go to Israel. But it’s seems so dangerous now, also expensive. I’m not a person of means, but I fully intend to live there, if possible, some day.
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Jeanette, I never thought I’d be able to go once, let alone heading there for the third time.
As to danger: I was there when things got crazy last year with the stabbings and using cars as killing machines. In fact, I was staying at a hostel inside Jaffa gate and had passed the same street just hours before the first stabbing occurred. I felt safer in Israel than I’ve ever felt in the U.S. The reaction of their military and police forces was immediate, and very reassuring.
As to cost: my friend, taught me to travel on a tight budget. We stayed in hostels, rented a car, and toured the country for 18 days on about $83 a day for everything. The flight was about $900. When you have to pay it all out at once, it is a lot. But putting aside a little at a time, with the goal in mind, makes it doable. I’d never be able to go if I had to hand it over all at once. Neither, I suspect, would the friends traveling with me this year. We saved, then purchased our flights, looking for the least expensive we could find.
Abba has the perfect timing, and if we pray and trust, moving when He gives direction, we are blessed with the desires of our heart.
I’ll be praying for you Jeanette!
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Statistically, Israel is safer than the US. It is the media that blows it out of proportion. More deaths in Chicago per day than in Israel per month, I think.
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Thank you for this post. I am so glad someone is speaking out about this. This is one of the many attacks on Israel. Every country can have any stripe or star on their flags, but beware, poor Israel. It is nothing else than anti-semitism. I am use to it from people who hates Israel, but please!!!!!! My people? Sandy Bruce has a good study on it as well Thank you for the post.
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Might I humbly ask how questioning something is somehow hating an entire nation or people? Do you hate Christianity because you take objection to Christmas, Easter, the symbol of the Cross and the like? I sincerely hope not. I have to ask, did you even listen to the video by 119 Ministries? There was no attack leveled against Israel, or the Jews living there, by them. They were very clear and humble about it. There’s no antisemitism against Israel (of which we are all a part of by the way) if you question things. If that’s the case, all the prophets were antisemitic. The apostles must have been antisemitic and most of all Yeshua, prophesying against the temple in His day. Is there any place for honesty in this conversation without anger and blanket accusations against those one disagrees with?
You said:
“Every country can have any stripe or star on their flags, but beware, poor Israel”
Doesn’t Israel have an obligation to be set apart from the nations? Why would they adopt the same practice as the nations concerning the symbols that represent them. For the record, I personally do not believe the USA is a nation under Yehovah. According to the symbols used there is not one thing that speaks “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” on it’s currency, statues, etc. Even the 1st amendment of the constitution is in contention with the first Commandment. By acknowledging this doesn’t make me, for one, a hater of anyone or anti-American.
Longing for the day Yeshua comes, releases us from this captivity and sets all this aright. 🙂 🙂
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I was thinking the same thing Travis (Courtney here)-bc I do not support a cross does not mean I am a Christian a phobe. When I see the symbol used in Hindu, Christian and other foreign god temples and bump into witches wearing the star–I really do not feel the need to involve it in life as it is not anything I am told I need in my life. Avoiding if questionable should not be something to scoff at. Worldwide this symbol is used in way too many other religions for me to feel the need to ‘defend’ it. Yet I am pro Israel to the core.
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Very well put Courtney and Travis ( and Stephen below)! We totally agree. We LOVE Israel (both Ephraim and Judah)! We have got to stop #1, being so easily offended and #2, compromising (mixing with what Father said not to). THIS is not meant to offend, but the same argument used in support of the star (in the article) is very similar to the same argument Christians use to bring a tree in their house during Christmas. They know it has pagan roots, but they still incorporate it into their lifestyle because they say they don’t worship it.
And, just because David or Paul may have done something, doesn’t mean we should follow, especially if Scripture says it’s wrong.
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Hi Everyone, the issue seems to boil down to this: Can someone disagree with Judah without being anti-Semitic? Are followers of Yah able to handle a teaching that exposes possible error/sin in modern Jewish practice without hating the Jews who practice it?
So I’d like to share my email response to Ephraim Frank that I sent yesterday:
Shabbat Shalom Ephraim,
I really enjoy the insights and teachings Yah has given you to share and your contributions and efforts for Bney Yosef and reuniting the 2 sticks. I’m proud to have you as a brother in Messiah!
I would like to bring an issue to your attention though. This current teaching about the Star of David seems a bit slanderous, in my opinion. Please, hear me out.
Is disagreement with current, prevailing Jewish thought anti-Semitic?
Is it possible Judah has some error they need to repent of in order to draw nearer to Yah?
Should we assume someone pointing out our possible errors hates us or loves us?
Blessings of Yah be upon you,
And my 2nd response to Ephraim today:
Please, keep up the good work! I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss this.
I think, if we are striving for unity, we should avoid insinuating (that’s what I meant in my “a bit slanderous” comment earlier) that another ministry is promoting “foolishness” and perpetuating anti-Semitism simply because they disagree with Judah (or our own personally held belief) on some issue. If I disagree with my brother Judah on some issue, that doesn’t make me or my teaching anti-Semitic. Even if some ignorant and unstable people choose to twist my position on an issue into it being “evil” or “hate”. See 2 Peter 3:16 His (Paul’s) letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Perhaps the community would be better served with a teaching on “agreeing to disagree” or “the beauty of unity despite differences”, rather than another “They’re wrong, I’m right. Listen to me, not them” type teaching (that seems to be pervasive in the HR movement). Which works the opposite effect of unity, since Paul warns in Gal. 5:15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
I, and I’m sure many, many others, would have huge respect for a ministry that put forth a differing position on a topic like this: “Recently, so and so published a teaching that we disagree with. We love the other teachings and great work they have done in equipping the saints for good works, and so we felt compelled to offer an alternative view on this topic.”
Building each other up and not tearing down while promoting each others work- that would be amazing and Yah pleasing! Truly unify and not dividing. Unity of the Spirit in the bond of shalom!
HalleluYah!
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100 percent agree as they were merely presenting ‘should we avoid the questionable’. Many folks flew off the handle saying they were antisemitic over it when they did not have that approach at all. We know Judah has errors too, and we should all be mature enough to discuss.
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Here are some from Assyria, Sumer, Egypt , the star is well known as a Hindu star of Goloka symbol and many other temples and countries-found it fascinating when I first looked into the whole star thing.
http://gosai.com/writings/satkona-star-of-david-or-star-of-goloka
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It’s also interesting to note that a form of what’s commonly called the “swastika” has also been incorporated into the hexagram for a very long time. While not technically the exact same as that used by the Nazi’s (which was resting on it’s corner) but close enough to make one wonder what’s going on. Just to toxic for me.
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Amen!
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Absolutely!
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Thank you for this!
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This statement was made in the piece:
“When David conquered Jerusalem he united the two Israels (the northern tribes with Judah, located in the southern region).”
Forgive me, if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the kingdom split into two distinct kingdoms known as “The house of Israel” and “The house of Judah” AFTER Solomon? During Davids reign it was the tribe of Benjamin (loyal to Saul) that was in rebellion at first but that was eventually quelled. Hardly two separate nations as after Solomon (in which ironically Judah and Benjamin (former enemies) were allies).
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We LOVE Israel (both Ephraim and Judah)! We have got to stop #1, being so easily offended and #2, compromising (mixing with what Father said not to). THIS is not meant to offend, but the same argument used in support of the star (in the article) is very similar to the same argument Christians use to bring a tree in their house during Christmas. They know it has pagan roots, but they still incorporate it into their lifestyle because they say they don’t worship it.
And, just because David or Paul may have done something, doesn’t mean we should follow, especially if Scripture says it’s wrong.
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And I am not so sure David DID use the star as his symbol…
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This reminds me of an article a good friend of mine sent me in a mailing she sends out. The author was not known but it is fitting; titled ‘Hatred in the Camp’ [brought the fall of Judah]. More desire for the Law, but they didn’t respect each other enough to leave them to their opinions, hence they destroyed themselves. We need to accept each other as an individual and Look to Yah in concert that we may find His direction.
Shalom!
Vince
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Excellent word.
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Vince, that sounds like a worthwhile read. Could you send it to Pete for him to check it out and possibly post for us?
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Does this passage have any weight in the conversation?
Lev 19:17 You shall not hate your brother in your heart; you shall certainly reprove your neighbor, and not allow sin on him.
Lev 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am YAHWEH.
It always puzzles me how it’s considered hatred if error is pointed out. I personally don’t know anyone who “hates” Israel because of the unbiblical symbol attached to it. In fact all those in this argument opposed to the use of it would sincerely LOVE to see the biblical symbol (the Menorah) be used. One has to wonder why it’s not? Maybe a closer look at that question might be in order at some point in this discussion.
Shalom,
Travis
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For some reason I can’t select “Like”, so this is my “LIKE”!!
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I would say, “Yes! The passage fits this conversation.”
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And Judah whored worse than Israel we are told in the Kings and prophets. As shocking as it may sound I can worship my King and love His people without a symbol if it is questionable –just as I love messiah without all the Christian symbols. Unequal weights and measures are an abomination in Proverbs. We must use same weight for Judah we use for Christendom.
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LIKE!!!
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Guys (the whole group and tenor of the conversation),
We should be more concerned with the beam in our own eyes and let the King handle Judah. Holding up their errors here borders on lashon hara.
Thus is Elul, let’s be more considerate of what we say and how we say it.
Blessings all, thank you.
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The problem is “our own house” apparently has adopted some things from Judah that seem, to some at least, be in error. I was under the impression we were all part of “Israel”. Don’t we then have a rightful opinion on how the current nation that occupies the land represents and presents itself to the world? Whether that opinion is recognized is another subject altogether. While I totally agree we are not Jews. Please remember, the nation calls itself Israel, not Judea or “The southern Kingdom”. As such we do, and should, have an opinion. It’s our homeland too, even if the occupants will not currently allow us citizenship. Just to clarify, there is no hatred in my heart of any kind. More sadness than anything.
I do have a question concerning the term “lashon hara”. The definition is:
“The Hebrew term lashon hara (or loshon hora) (Hebrew לשון הרע; “evil tongue”) is the halakhic term for derogatory speech about another person. Lashon hara differs from defamation in that its focus is on the use of true speech for a wrongful purpose, rather than falsehood and harm arising.”
What “wrongful purpose” is perceived when having an honest discussion questioning something used to identify a people perceived as representing El in the earth (of which we identify) that’s nowhere mentioned in the bible but used by countless other religions in the world prior to it’s use by the current state of Israel? I’ve not heard anyone be derogatory or denigrating questioning it’s use.
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Agreed, Pete. Also,
“We should be more concerned with the beam in our own eyes and let the King handle” Ephraim including the church, right?
Said in Love.
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I don’t think Travis or Courtney or Stephen said anything hateful or anti-Semitic if that is what you are insuating.
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I just think we need to be most concerned with our own house, and yes, that does include the church and the Hebraic. Judah is not going to hear correction from us, so best to leave it in the hands of the Suzerain. 😉
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If “Holding up their errors here borders on lashon hara”, does the same apply to those holding up the church’s errors or the hebraic movement’s errors here? If so, and I tend to think it does, then….
Again, said in LOVE.
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We’re not expecting Judah to hear our “correction”, but Ephraim. You are Ephraim, right? Most that read this blog are Ephraim, right? Mind you, there are many Jewish believers (messianic and non messianic) that feel the same way about the star as those opposing your support of it. All I’ve seen and heard from those opposing your opinion of the star is loving caution for Ephraim to not go down another religious path. Yet, you reprimand them in front of everyone reading, saying they are close to lashon hara? Instead, they are respectfully questioning the basis you have for your support of the star. I’ve seen more pointed sarcasm coming from your posts towards Ephraim and the church on this blog than anyone else. Whether you are saying it’s “jousting” or not, doesn’t mean it’s loving or ok. So does lashon hara only apply if it’s Ephraim talking about Judah, or Judah talking about Ephraim? But it’s not lashon hara when Ephraim speaks of Ephraim? What if Courtney or Travis or Stephen find out they’re Jewish? Does that then make you fine with they’re constructive criticism?
I seriously am asking this and wondering..
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So it’s not lashan hara for you to point out your irritation with the ministry you were referring to above in your post? Almost everyone reading this blog knows who you were referring to.
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Great points, Travis.
Pete, those last few comments from me were to you. I don’t know how to comment directly after your comments. Mine seem to fall behind.
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Yes no one is trying to correct Judah here-the point is a ministry geared toward Ephraim pointed out ‘just in case you may want to avoid’. So, point is for Ephraim to consider the matter. I don’t think it was ever presented from that ministry to Judah or put in an antisemitic tone. But Judah is not above reproach on things and that must be kept in mind as all of the house of Israel has issues to deal with and is blinded in part on things.
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I was offering thoughts concerning a ministry in our house that was critical of our brother’s house… We all do well to leave them alone. Father will take care of those things that need addressing.
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REALLY LIKE!!!
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That REALLY LIKE was to loammi.
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“That ministry” did it humbly and lovingly. They still have great credibility, in my opinion. They don’t do it to gain favor with man, but with YHWH. So, of course, someone will always be offended no matter the intentions.
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But, how does Judah perceive the topic? Can they hear or take Ephraim seriously if we are knocking something so sensitive to them?
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What Judah are you talking about? There’s a lot of different beliefs in Judah. What sect or group are we supposed to follow?
The question is, “How does YHWH perceive what this ministry did?”
Who can speak for Him?
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Whether we like it or not, we’re all connected:
Rom 11:25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be wise within yourselves, that hardness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations comes in; (Gen. 48:8-19)
Rom 11:26 and so all the tribes of Israel will be saved, even as it has been written, “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away iniquity from Jacob.
Rom 11:27 And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” (Isa. 59:20, 21; Jer. 50:3-8)
Rom 11:28 Indeed, according to the good news, they are enemies toward you, but according to election, they are beloved for the sake of the patriarchs.
Rom 11:29 For YAHWEH does not withdraw His free gift and His calling.
Rom 11:30 For as you then also disobeyed YAHWEH, but now have obtained mercy by the disobedience of these,
Rom 11:31 so also these now have disobeyed, so that they also may obtain mercy by your mercy.
Rom 11:32 For YAHWEH has shut up all into unbelief, that He may show mercy to all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches and of the wisdom and the knowledge of YAHWEH! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 “For who has known the mind of YAHWEH? Or who became His counselor?” (Isa. 40:13)
Rom 11:35 “Or who first gave to Him, and it will be repaid to him?” (Job 41:11)
Rom 11:36 Because of Him, and through Him, and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever! Amen.
Come quickly Yeshua!!
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REALLY LIKE!!!
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Can’t please everybody all the time. Even many in Judah don’t want that symbol. But Selah, shalom peeps
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This is an EXCELLENT article!
http://anneelliott.com/2016/09/myths-about-unity/
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Mary, thanks for posting this. You only need to add it to the thread one time. Thank you.
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I was adding that link (to Anne’s article) in only two other places in addition to loammi, to two specific people’s comments (Travis and Stephen under Vince). It was quite fitting and meant to be an encouragement. That’s all. I was under the impression that they would be notified (possibly) when someone replies to them. Travis had a very good point when humbly posting a Scripture in Leviticus, which is one of the ones that Anne references in her article. Her article is a very encouraging, convicting (to us all), “spot on” article that is completely based on Scripture.
I hope I didn’t offend you. That wasn’t my intention.
Shalom and Blessings, brother!
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Pete, I’ve been needing to apologize to you for getting obviously frustrated with you about this specific blogpost. So, I am sorry for not responding in gentleness and kindness in a couple of my posts earlier last week. It was wrong of me to not come to you privately, first. I shouldn’t have posted the “frustrating” comments. The reason I am posting this publicly is because my replies were obviously posted publicly and all those that read them were (may have been) affected by what I said as the emotion was more than likely felt. I am sure MANY were frustrated with me, and I am sorry for being the wrong kind of stumbling block. Sin is sin. Will you (all) please forgive me? There is no justifiable excuse for it – the way in which I responded.
I do stand by we need to proceed in caution when going along with ANYONE that adds to our takes away from Scripture. (Anne says it much better)
Shalom, brother
Mary
(The article I posted is a really good article…like I said, convicting and encouraging)
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Clarification:
Posting the link to Anne’s article wasn’t what I am apologizing for. You can read the whole thread above and see where I have failed. 😦
Shalom y’all!
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CnM,
You didn’t offend me and I forgive you. Your frustration was clear… I think we can all learn something here.
We are all growing at different paces and convicted of differing matters. We can disagree and make our case, but after that, we cannot impose our will or understanding on others. This is one of the major causes of division in the Messianic; seeking to impose our thoughts on others. I am learning to state my case, then leave the judging of hearts up to the King. He can handle fixing me, and if necessary, others.
If you are convicted on this matter, act accordingly, but understand, others may not hold the same conviction, yet we all still need to learn to walk in peace and unity. There truly are very few matters worthy of dividing over. This isn’t one of them.
The next time I see you in person, I’ll tell you something I learned recently that sheds interesting light on this topic.
Blessings,
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We totally agree with you on that.
Thank you for forgiving me… It is freeing and a load has been lifted.
This next part is not in anger or in disgust. Please read keeping that in mind.
I do have to say that we are not offended by the star. We are convicted about it, and do walk accordingly. We fellowship in households with others who use it as decoration, or jewelry, etc. We go to congregations of those who wear them, decorate with them, etc. Y’all have known us for over a year now, and you never knew we were convicted about that issue…because we don’t impose that on others. The issue we have is not that others have to do what we do, the issue is when those who are convicted about it (not incorporating the star) are being referred to by fellow brethren (Ephraim) as leaning towards being anti-Semitic. I have to say that all the people we know who do not incorporate the star are the farthest from being anti-Semitic.
We do appreciate you and your family. All of this is said in LOVE.
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Wanted to clarify that the “Ephraim” in parenthesis in my above comment is “The house of Ephraim”. I just realized the irony (if that’s even the proper way to say that) that Ephraim F. was one of the ones above stating his concerns. I was not trying to single him out. Ephraim (the house of) should know and understand us better than Judah and so should understand that we are coming out of mixing and don’t desire to go back in to another form of mixing.
Question: Did the prodigal son repent and come back to follow his older brother, or did he come back to follow his Father? If he came back to follow his brother, then why would his brother be jealous of him? I don’t believe he purposefully was trying to make his brother jealous at all. I believe he was truly repentant of his “mixed up” ways and came humbly back to his Father to be whoever his Father wanted him to be. And in doing so, his brother took notice.
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CnM,
Well stated. My feelings exactly. As you’ve stated I’ve not seen hatred toward anyone by those who hold that the use of the hexagram is toxic. I know I certainly do not. Would that many of those from the other side of the argument would look beyond offense and walk in love as well (and refrain from labeling anyone who holds a different opinion as antisemitic). Maybe then we can have an honest, albeit passionate :), discussion.
Pete,
You said:
“The next time I see you in person, I’ll tell you something I learned recently that sheds interesting light on this topic.”
Why not say it here so everyone can benefit?
Shalom 🙂
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